Talat Ahmad, the university vice chancellor, recently went against the will of the campus faculty and students and invited Prime Minister Narendra Modi for a convocation programme. And Mr. Modi didn’t show up. In 2008, Mr. Modi, who was then the Gujarat Chief Minister, had passed snide remarks at the institution: “There is a university in Delhi called Jamia Millia Islamia. It has publicly announced that it will foot the legal fee of terrorists involved in act. Go drown yourself.”

Maria Akram spoke with Talat Ahmad on a range of issues-from the recent JNU row to his invitation to Modi to the minority status of Universities.

In 2008, Narendra Modi, who was then Gujarat Chief Minister, had said, “There is a university in Delhi called Jamia Millia Islamia. It has publicly announced that it will foot the legal fee of terrorists involved in act. Go drown yourself.” The terror tag was given to your University by none other than Mr Modi and you recently invited him for a convocation programme. Do you think it was justified?

Narendra Modi that time (2008) was the chief minister of Gujarat. And he was in election campaign and during a rally he had said that. Now, he is the Prime Minister of our country. So he is a different entity altogether. Last year, I called Pranab Mukherjee and then Smriti Irani came. In November, I thought I'll call the Prime Minister. I don't see anything wrong in it and I still stand by my decision. But due to unavailability of time, he couldn't come. Not that he turned down my invitation.

But still, he went on record and publicly denounced Jamia University and linked it to terrorism. Even faculty, students and alumni against the move, you went ahead with it. Any particular reason?

It was not only Him. Moreover, that time, he was not in Centre. Central government was led by some other people. It was the then Central government who had sent the police. The activities that took place then were in that government’s (UPA Government) control. It was not in control of Narendra Modi. People used to read the media reportage on the issue and then react. Not only him but many people made statements. I don’t want to name anyone but others also said similar things about Jamia Universtiy. See, these are politicians. If you keep noting everyone's statements then you cannot call anyone else remain isolated. Things come and go…Hardly, 5-10 per cent of people had opposed the decision to invite Mr Modi. Otherwise I got many congratulatory letters from students and alumni. Some of the alumni sent me their plans to welcome the PM. Every where, there are people who will oppose any decision.

Do you feel people didn’t stand up for Jamia University in 2008 whereas they are supporting the JNU?

The atmosphere in 2008 was very charged and the issue that time was about terrorism. The media reports indicated terror links. Also, it was established the accused shot a police officer so things became out of control. But in JNU it is not like anyone has killed. Also, JNU has an appeal all over the country and by mere sloganeering, one doesn’t become a terrorist. The reason could also be that it is a Muslim-dominated area but it was linked and shown in the media. Had the boy died in the police shooting would’ve been different but there was counter shooting as well. And because they also fired, it sent a signal that something was wrong. The faculty on its own came in favour and contributed money for their legal aid but Jamia University officially didn’t pay from its coffers.

Now, that the JNU has been bestowed an anti-national title, do you think they are going through the same what Jamia went through eight years ago after Batla House encounter?

Yes, after the Batla Encounter people used to talk about it but we all have moved on. Even Sonia Gandhi came to Jamia University and so did Pranab Mukherjee. And Narendra Modi would've also come had he had time. Like Batla House incident, what is happening in JNU is similar. There is turmoil in JNU right now. There are discussions and demonstrations taking place. But this is all a temporary phase. We all have passed out from JNU.I am from JNU. There are so many people who are from JNU and are working all over the world and within the government. Are we all terrorist? Niramala Sitharaman (BJP spokesperson) was our contemporary. Currently, the local people are against JNU for 'whatever' reasons. After one week, two weeks, a month, people will forget about it and things will go back to normal. We are all part of the country and at times, there are circumstances, sometimes, politically motivated, and people react to it but it gets over.

Do you fear there might be a spill over on Jamia University of the JNU row?

No, I doubt the JNU controversy will come on to us. But I cannot stop students from going to JNU and participate. Though, exams are approaching and they are busy with studies. It is much cooler here and no such activity taking place in the campus. As I said, it all happens and this time it is JNU. They will sail through this crisis. When I was a student in Aligarh Muslim University, then also there were these kind of demonstrations questioning the minority character of the University. It would be shut on some days then again open. It happens. Before, JNU, Hyderabad University was going through the same but now things are calm there. Whatever the mistakes were highlighted during the incident, they will be soon rectified.

The aftermath of these controversies is that the students have to face the wrath. For instance, JNU students living in Munirka are asked to leave. Jamia students even now face problems looking for an accommodation. So it's not easy to move on. What do you think?

Jamia students faced the same problem but it has now cooled down. Those, who have invested in property and depend on the rental income will want students. Instances of students thrown out are all momentary and after the news ebb, students go back to their accommodations. This is the problem with our country that people react too sharply to news and there is an outburst. With time, it all cools down and things go back to normal. Students being thrown out of accommodations is also part of an outburst.

Is this government meddling with the autonomy of the education institutions?

The government wants to control things. I will not use the word ‘meddling’. But they want things in their control and want things done in a 'proper' way. They (government) want people should deliver and don't want people too 'relaxed'. There was control before as well but now it is more.

Those who don’t comply with the government are removed, like we have seen in the case of IIT, FTII. Have Vice-chancellors been reduced to puppets of the government?

No, in Central Universities it isn't the case. We have a search committee for V-Cs of Central Universities. There is a procedure and it is approved by the President. Anyone can apply for the post and the government has very little control over the choice of the V-C. Only Gajendra Chauhan (FTII) appointment was questioned else all other V-Cs are intellectuals and academicians. In fact, I am of the view that candidates should not directly apply for the post as it reduces the stature of the post.

Union HRD Minister, Smriti Irani, had recently questioned the minority status of Aligarh Muslim University. Will it affect Jamia University?

Jamia got its minority status through the Minorities Commission and the decision was taken in the Parliament. This Commission was authorized and given this responsibility to assess and then reject the minority status granted to the Universities. Not only, Jamia or Aligarh University, even Sikhs, Jains and Christians Universities got the same status. It is not possible to take it away and it can only be done through the Parliament. I don’t know why they are questioning only the Muslim universities. The government can answer this. I think it is all political.

Jamia University was also in the news for different hostel timings for boys and girls. Delhi Commission for Women issued a show-cause over University’s directive barring female students of its hostels from taking permission for returning after 8 pm while boys are allowed till 10 pm. PinjraTod campaign and PadsAgainstSexism campaing were carried out by female students. Is Jamia regressive and conservative that students had to carry out such a ‘bold’ campaigns?